Post by Sylocat on May 10, 2014 22:01:00 GMT 1
[13:42] <Whiteeyes> Wow, the auto logout is not fast on this.
[13:43] <Whiteeyes> So, Jackalopes.
[13:43] <froborr> Indeed.
[13:43] <Sylocat> Hello
[13:43] <Sylocat> Glad you could make it
[13:43] <Whiteeyes> So, for once I did not watch ahead f time.
[13:43] <froborr> ...I actually did.
[13:43] <Whiteeyes> Thanks, it,s great to be here.
[13:43] <Whiteeyes> Wait, what?!
[13:43] <froborr> They ended up showing it at the party after all, but then the party ended early.
[13:44] <Whiteeyes> Ah.
[13:44] <froborr> So hear I am.
[13:44] <Whiteeyes> Now you get to know how I feel usually.
[13:44] <froborr> *here
[13:44] <froborr> *shakes head*
[13:44] <Sylocat> mere_oblivion can't make it, and I haven't heard back from draftpunk, so I was worried I'd be going it solo
[13:44] <Whiteeyes> Knowing what's going on/coming up but unable to say anything.
[13:44] <Whiteeyes> Because SPOILERS!
[13:45] <Sylocat> 15 minutes
[13:45] <froborr> I still can't believe it turned out that Dinky Doo imagined the entirety of the series so far.
[13:45] <Sylocat> Ah yes, the St. Elsewhere ending
[13:45] <froborr> Yep.
[13:45] <Whiteeyes> I made extra sure not to spoil myself and resist the temptation of watching it at the premier like I usually do ust so I could watch it with you guys.
[13:45] <Whiteeyes> :<
[13:45] <Sylocat> (though it hasn't qualified as a twist since The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, if not earlier
[13:46] <froborr> And then it turns out Time Turner is some kind of immortal alien time traveler. I guess Season 5 will be about him? I dunno, it doesn't sound like much of a premise to build a show around.
[13:47] <Sylocat> Yeah, who would watch a show like that?
[13:48] <froborr> I wish I had yogurt.
[13:48] <Whiteeyes> I'm eating yogurt right now...with raspberries.
[13:48] <froborr> The Indian food I got last night is nigh-inedibly spicy, but I bet it would be really good if I added yogurt, you see.
[13:49] <Whiteeyes> Ypgurt goes great with it, especially if you mix it with nan bread.
[13:50] <Sylocat> 10 minutes
[13:51] <Whiteeyes> I've been passing the time watching the pony version of the flop.
[13:51] <Whiteeyes> Everybody do the flop!
[13:51] <Whiteeyes> *thud*
[13:52] <Sylocat> Or do the rubber chicken dance
[13:52] <froborr> Turns out that the spiciness ratings are relative to the dish, not restaurant wide, so asking them to make the vindalu spicy results in something WAY spicier than a spicy chicken tikka masala.
[13:52] <Whiteeyes> And then your head spontaniously combusts.
[13:52] <Sylocat> Yikes
[13:52] <froborr> Pretty much.
[13:53] <froborr> Anyway, yeah, I went to the finale party.
[13:53] <froborr> Afternoon will be mostly dedicated to Bakemonogatari and possibly napping.
[13:53] <froborr> And tomorrow I'm going to a character creation session for a campaign of the Doctor Who RPG.
[13:53] <Sylocat> I remember one time, my cousin took us to a Jamaican restaurant for her birthday... everything on the menu was spicy as hell, and the restaurant literally did not have any milk at all
[13:53] <Whiteeyes> There is a WHO RPG?!
[13:54] <froborr> Don't get me wrong, I like spicy food. It's just that a vindalu is pretty spicy, so I ordered a spicy one expecting a normal vindalu, not something that makes vindalus break down and weep in terror.
[13:55] <froborr> Whiteeyes: Apparently yes?
[13:55] <froborr> 5 minutes
[13:56] <froborr> They didn't have any jerk chicken or jerk pork? That's usually heavily seasoned, but not actually spicy...
[13:56] <Whiteeyes> I am a major RPG enthusiast. I have over a dozen diferent RPGs in PDF format on my ipad alone. I am very intested in hearing about it, maybe as a post-session post about how it plays?
[13:56] <froborr> Sure, I could do that.
[13:56] <Sylocat> I love RPGs as well... draftpunk is part of my Pathfinder group
[13:57] <froborr> I like RPGs a lot, I just have no one to play with.
[13:57] <froborr> Online just doesn't work in my experience.
[13:57] <Whiteeyes> Neat, I DM an eastern flavor Pathfinder group.
[13:57] <Whiteeyes> PbP has a tone of problems, yeah.
[13:58] <froborr> Playing over Skype doesn't work much better IMO.
[13:58] <froborr> I get to run BESM at AUSA once a year. That is usually it for me. Getting to actually play in a game is going to be nice!
[13:58] <Whiteeyes> Which edition/version?
[13:58] <froborr> The good one. Second.
[13:58] <Whiteeyes> Ah.
[13:58] <froborr> Revised Second, actually, though I'm not sure what the difference between that and unrevised is, I've never seen a copy.
[13:59] <Sylocat> 1 minute
[13:59] <Whiteeyes> I only know the d20 and Third
[13:59] <froborr> They suck.
[13:59] <Whiteeyes> Third is not that bad
[13:59] <Sylocat> ready...
[13:59] <froborr> They basically combine all of BESM's flaws with all of D&D's.
[14:00] <Whiteeyes> Okay yeah d20 sucked.
[14:00] <Sylocat> click
[14:00] <froborr> Go!
[14:00] <Sylocat> Oh, Spike
[14:00] <Whiteeyes> Load damn you load!
[14:00] <froborr> Heheh, take that RD's ego.
[14:01] <Whiteeyes> "Point taken."
[14:01] <Sylocat> Pinkie...?
[14:01] <Whiteeyes> AJ got it right, it's not a different way of smiling and waving.
[14:01] <Sylocat> Flash?!
[14:01] <Sylocat> Oh yikes
[14:01] <Whiteeyes> Twilight has a point, she hasnt done much as a princess.
[14:01] <Sylocat> The fans will NOT be happy about him
[14:02] <Sylocat> Ah, so THIS is who those nobleponies were in Equestria Games
[14:02] <Whiteeyes> I remember these guys from the Games!
[14:02] <froborr> Oh, that was him, wasn't he! Thought the voice was familiar.
[14:02] <Whiteeyes> THAT WAS IT oh Spke beat me to it.
[14:02] <froborr> Are you slightly behind Whiteeyes? Want us to pause for 10 seconds?
[14:02] <Sylocat> Yeah, the fanbase utterly loathes him
[14:02] <Whiteeyes> Nah, im good.
[14:02] <Whiteeyes> brb
[14:03] <Sylocat> Oh yikes...
[14:03] <Sylocat> Who is he supposed to be?
[14:03] <froborr> I don't really know.
[14:03] <froborr> Duke of something.
[14:03] <froborr> Maretania?
[14:04] <Sylocat> Hey, she's the Princess of Books
[14:04] <Sylocat> Ooh, musical number
[14:04] <froborr> Yeah, I liked that comic.
[14:05] <Sylocat> They went all-out for this one
[14:05] <Sylocat> Ooh, Celestia gets to sing!
[14:05] <froborr> Yeah, solid animation bump.
[14:05] <froborr> I wonder if there's an aurora every time she sings.
[14:05] <froborr> Also: Twilight/Luna parallel, I see you.
[14:06] <Sylocat> And of course she's going to get her "castle" thanks to the castle of the sisters
[14:06] <Sylocat> Wow, this is an elaborate number
[14:06] <froborr> Yeah.
[14:07] <Sylocat> Oh, are we about to meet the villain?
[14:07] <Whiteeyes> Back.
[14:07] <Sylocat> Please be Tirek, please be Tirek...
[14:07] <Sylocat> Or not
[14:07] <Whiteeyes> Good thing about having it on Ipad, I can take it with me
[14:07] <Sylocat> WHAT?!
[14:07] <froborr> =)
[14:08] <Sylocat> Did he say Tirek?! This is Tirek!
[14:08] <froborr> Not just Tirek.
[14:08] <froborr> Explicitly the *return* of Tirek.
[14:08] <Whiteeyes> MAGIC EATER!
[14:08] <Whiteeyes> The CUTIE MARK IS GONE!
[14:08] <Sylocat> HOLY ROADAPPLES
[14:08] <Sylocat> Does this mean G1 is canon?
[14:09] <Whiteeyes> THE BOOK!
[14:09] <Sylocat> Whoa, that was Star Swirl the Bearded
[14:09] <froborr> It's really hard to say.
[14:09] <Sylocat> Ooh, are we going to see Tartarus?
[14:09] <Whiteeyes> Skorpan!?
[14:09] <Whiteeyes> How much G1 would there be?
[14:09] <Whiteeyes> Season 2 escape, so...less than a year?
[14:10] <froborr> Yep.
[14:10] <Sylocat> Ah yes, that look they gave Fluttershy
[14:10] <Whiteeyes> Fluttershy is right, give him a chance! He's good now!
[14:10] <Sylocat> Yep, that castle is going to be her "kingdom"
[14:10] <Whiteeyes> If you're all jerks to him, of course he'll be a jerk back.
[14:10] <Sylocat> Is he wearing a Tom Baker scarf?
[14:11] <Whiteeyes> Marry Poppins!
[14:11] <froborr> No, he was dressed as Mary Poppins.
[14:11] <Sylocat> General MacArthur?
[14:11] <Sylocat> Ah yes, Mary Poppins
[14:11] <Sylocat> Oh yikes, Princess Discord
[14:11] <Sylocat> That will be the new meme
[14:11] <Sylocat> Ooh, the box
[14:11] <Whiteeyes> RD was kinda jerk there.
[14:12] <Sylocat> Wait, Discord WANTS her to open it?
[14:12] <Sylocat> What's he up to?
[14:12] <Whiteeyes> Discord, see he's being nice in his own way!
[14:12] <froborr> I seriously love not-actually-evil-just-a-manipulative-jerk Discord.
[14:12] <Whiteeyes> Even Flutttershy isn't buying that one.
[14:12] <Sylocat> Oh jeepers
[14:13] <Whiteeyes> Did Discord just mark the keys for them?
[14:13] <Sylocat> Yep, he even used labels matching the colors
[14:13] <Whiteeyes> Discord is best tricster mentor.
[14:14] <Sylocat> Toucord
[14:14] <Sylocat> Ew
[14:14] <Sylocat> Ah, of course they know each other
[14:14] <Whiteeyes> Discord pwns.
[14:14] <Sylocat> And the world of fanfiction did tremble
[14:14] <Whiteeyes> Yeay Fluttsershy!
[14:15] <Whiteeyes> Tirek is perfectly manipulating this.
[14:15] <Sylocat> Oh, will this be Discord's ACTUAL redemption? He falls for Tirek's silver tongue, but has to learn that it actually does mean something to him?
[14:15] <froborr> He really is. Makes sense, he is the senior villain.
[14:16] <Whiteeyes> Discord, think about it, this would make Fluttershy cry!
[14:16] <Sylocat> Eeyup, he marked the keys for them
[14:16] <Whiteeyes> See, her picture is one of your three possessions in the world!
[14:16] <Whiteeyes> We don't need all the flashbacks!
[14:16] <Sylocat> Ah yes, the clip show episode
[14:17] <froborr> At least the clips are really short.
[14:17] <froborr> And it probably is worth reminding the target audience about this. Baby's First Season-Long Arc.
[14:17] <Whiteeyes> Do we need to see the clips? Twilight is telling us what they are!
[14:17] <Sylocat> Pinkie interrupts the flashback
[14:17] <Whiteeyes> Okay, they only did two.
[14:18] <Sylocat> She really does have the Fourth Wall power, and she knows the audience will get bored
[14:18] <Sylocat> So she interrupts
[14:18] <Whiteeyes> KEYS!
[14:18] <Whiteeyes> And then AJ spent hers...
[14:18] <froborr> I really like that they verbally acknowledged that part of it was teaching someone else about the element, I was worried that would be left just lying there.
[14:19] <Whiteeyes> Pinkie, leave boneless alone...never mind
[14:19] <Sylocat> Ooh, 3D
[14:19] <Whiteeyes> Okay those keys look awesome!
[14:20] <Whiteeyes> Magic = Friendshp is the moral again.
[14:20] <Sylocat> Eeyup, Discord sold them out
[14:20] <Sylocat> And he looks more like his old self
[14:20] <Whiteeyes> NOT LYRA!
[14:21] <Sylocat> Yeesh, this is a creepy one
[14:21] <Whiteeyes> Twilight, none of you except Flutershy really were friendly with him.
[14:21] <froborr> It would have been funny if getting her power drained caused DH's eyes to straighten out.
[14:21] <Whiteeyes> No, Derpy!
[14:21] <Whiteeyes> So, EArth Pony Strength Power is canon.
[14:21] <Sylocat> ...How the heck does that work?
[14:22] <Whiteeyes> Take a quick break?
[14:22] <froborr> k
[14:22] <Sylocat> How long?
[14:22] <Sylocat> Start at half past, or sooner?
[14:22] <Whiteeyes> Eh just a couple minutes to discuss that ending.
[14:22] <Whiteeyes> Half past sounds good.
[14:22] <froborr> Half past sounds good.
[14:22] <froborr> We'll resume from the 22 minute mark.
[14:22] <Whiteeyes> So yeah, thoughts on part one?
[14:23] <froborr> I will be mostly quiet in this discussion, since I've seen part two.
[14:23] <Sylocat> It was... whoa
[14:23] <Sylocat> I thought it was surprising when they namedropped Firefly
[14:23] <froborr> Did they?
[14:23] <Whiteeyes> I am so disapointed in Discord, I thought he knew better.
[14:23] <froborr> I missed that!
[14:23] <Sylocat> I didn't seriously think they'd gotten Tirek back as well
[14:23] <Sylocat> Yeah, in "Testing, Testing, 1,2,3," it's said that General Firefly founded the Wonderbolts
[14:24] <froborr> Oh, right.
[14:24] <froborr> I thought you meant in this episode.
[14:24] <Whiteeyes> Then again as I've always complained, nopony else ever treats him nice besides Fluttershy.
[14:24] <Whiteeyes> And then Twilght goes "But didn't our friendship mean anything?"
[14:24] <Whiteeyes> And you can just hear AJ's airquotes wheever she says "friends" about him.
[14:25] <Whiteeyes> Reap what you sow!
[14:25] <Whiteeyes> I am feeling ranty today aparently.
[14:25] <froborr> Well, but by the same principle, he's an obnoxious jerk pretty consistently.
[14:26] <Whiteeyes> Yes, it's almost as if he's never had a friend and is learning how to be one.
[14:26] <Whiteeyes> He even bookmarked it for Twilight!
[14:27] <Whiteeyes> DISCORD IS BEST PRINCESS!
[14:27] <Sylocat> He expressed disappointment that he hadn't ruined Twilight's and Cadance's visit
[14:27] <froborr> No, he has done nice things for them, most notably the book. But he is also actively malicious toward them for his own amusement.
[14:27] <froborr> That's not "hasn't learned how to be a friend yet," that's "isn't really interested in being friends."
[14:27] <Whiteeyes> He's like a kid punching people because he's bored.
[14:28] <Sylocat> And that's a bad thing
[14:28] <Sylocat> 2 minutes
[14:28] <froborr> What kind of kid does that!?
[14:28] <Whiteeyes> The boed kind that hasn't learned that it's not okay to do that.
[14:29] <Sylocat> There's only so much you can teach a kid who doesn't know it's not okay to punch people just because he's bored
[14:29] <Sylocat> 1 minute
[14:29] <froborr> Yeah, that's kind of basic human empathy.
[14:29] <Whiteeyes> Not everybody gets that.
[14:29] <Sylocat> Here... we... go...
[14:29] <Sylocat> (as the Joker would say)
[14:29] <froborr> Well, sure, but that's not the fault of the people around the kid.
[14:30] <Sylocat> Click
[14:30] <froborr> I like the Previously On music.
[14:30] <Whiteeyes> So...when was Tirek sealed away anyway?
[14:30] <Sylocat> In G1, that's when
[14:31] <Whiteeyes> He was sealed at least after Discord so he knew that Discord had been sealed.
[14:31] <Sylocat> Well, given that Firefly took him down, and Firefly founded the Wonderbolts after the NMM incident
[14:31] <froborr> Man, Discord rubbing his hands together in Fluttershy's window is WAY creepier now.
[14:31] <Sylocat> Eeyup
[14:32] <Whiteeyes> Twilight, guard all our "Buy some Apples!" against the evil super being!
[14:32] <Sylocat> Wait, he knows about Cadance, but not Twilight?
[14:32] <froborr> Yep.
[14:32] <Sylocat> And Discord didn't tell him?
[14:32] <Sylocat> Oops, she's about to get shimmery eyes, isn't she?
[14:32] <froborr> Cadance is apparently quite old after all.
[14:32] <Whiteeyes> Celestia "No getting your super save the world friends to help" Celestia's plan is brilliant!
[14:33] <Sylocat> Or this is another test
[14:33] <Whiteeyes> SPIRIT BOMB!
[14:33] <froborr> Well, with the Elements of Harmony gone, there isn't much her friends can do to help.
[14:33] <Sylocat> Yeesh... Twilight's gotta take on all of that?
[14:33] <Sylocat> Ah, so Discord's playing Tirek as well
[14:33] <froborr> Twilight absorbed the Spirit Bomb to go Super Saiyan!
[14:33] <Whiteeyes> Okay, Twilight, hide somewhere people won't be able to find you!
[14:34] <froborr> So the black mark on Luna isn't part of her cutie mark.
[14:34] <Sylocat> That answers one fan question
[14:34] <Whiteeyes> Okay Twilight, don't screw up!
[14:34] <Sylocat> Duh...
[14:34] <Sylocat> So, Twilight IS going to give this power back when it's over, right?
[14:34] <Sylocat> Wow, Twilight's changing the time of day even faster than Discord
[14:35] <Sylocat> Discord's having a crisis of conscience
[14:35] <Whiteeyes> So, how did they beat Tirek ast time?
[14:35] <froborr> They said, his brother helped.
[14:36] <Whiteeyes> No Twilight, don't lie like that.
[14:36] <Whiteeyes> Teleport!
[14:36] <Sylocat> Wait, where ARE the others?
[14:36] <Sylocat> Oh, that's where (one of them) is
[14:36] <Sylocat> And she thought flying was rough before!
[14:36] <Whiteeyes> NOT NOW!
[14:36] <Sylocat> She's overloading
[14:37] <Whiteeyes> I hate "I have to do this alone" plots.
[14:37] <Whiteeyes> PONY BALLS!
[14:37] <Sylocat> Whoa
[14:37] <Sylocat> He tossed them into paintings, like in Super Mario 64
[14:37] <froborr> Tartarus!
[14:38] <Sylocat> Oh no... is THAT the last key?
[14:38] <froborr> I love the sandwich sword.
[14:38] <Whiteeyes> I haven't touched that one yet!
[14:38] <Sylocat> So, Discord has to know that Twilight's not actually there
[14:38] <froborr> Him melting the stained glass is hardcore.
[14:39] <froborr> NO FLUTTERSHY DON'T CRY
[14:39] <Sylocat> Oh yikes, the fandom wants to clobber Discord right now
[14:39] <Whiteeyes> Fluttershy, you probably feel as bad as I do.
[14:40] <Whiteeyes> Ironic echo!
[14:41] <Sylocat> Well, at least Tirek will have trouble finding her
[14:41] <Sylocat> Or not
[14:41] <Whiteeyes> Oh boy, at least she saved the owl.
[14:41] <Sylocat> Oh, it... is... ON.
[14:41] <froborr> Yeah. Bye-bye library.
[14:42] <Whiteeyes> KAMEHAMEHA!
[14:42] <Sylocat> Tirek is going down so hard
[14:42] <Whiteeyes> KAIOKEN TIMES TEN!
[14:42] <Sylocat> Now this is a dark one
[14:43] <froborr> This is a pretty brutal fight, yeah.
[14:43] <Whiteeyes> Holy geeze it is Pony Ball Z, I was just kidding!
[14:43] <Whiteeyes> Don't do it, that's a really bad idea!
[14:43] <froborr> Except that if it were Pony Ball Z, this two-parter would have been a season long.
[14:44] <Sylocat> Tirek is going down
[14:44] <Sylocat> Hard
[14:44] <Sylocat> Oh yikes, he said the "as you wish" line
[14:44] <Whiteeyes> Discord key time!
[14:45] <Whiteeyes> GOJIRA!
[14:45] <Sylocat> It's fitting that it belonged to Tirek's brother
[14:45] <froborr> Yeah.
[14:46] <Whiteeyes> Tirek kicked his own ass, the best kind of ironic defeat!
[14:46] <Sylocat> And here comes the Rainbow Power toy line, am I right?
[14:46] <Whiteeyes> RainbowPower!?
[14:46] <Whiteeyes> MY GUESS WAS RIGHT!
[14:46] <Sylocat> They've been showing ads for it since... YIKES
[14:47] <Whiteeyes> I guessed this sense the season premier!
[14:47] <Sylocat> Oh sheesh those look horrible
[14:47] <froborr> Twilight is the only one that doesn't look like ass.
[14:47] <Sylocat> It's only temporary, right?
[14:47] <Whiteeyes> The toys look better.
[14:47] <Whiteeyes> OH NO.
[14:48] <Whiteeyes> THE TOYS LOOK BETTER.
[14:48] <froborr> Should we be worried that the ONLY cell with someone in it in Tartarus is Tirek?
[14:48] == FoME [IP REDACTED] has joined ##rabbitcube
[14:48] <Sylocat> Mom just said, "What about the library?"
[14:48] <froborr> Meanwhile the rainbow wave passes through the CMC. They look hopefully at their flanks... nope.
[14:48] <Whiteeyes> And they change back, thank God.
[14:49] <Sylocat> ...A new library?
[14:49] <Whiteeyes> Best palace.
[14:49] <Sylocat> I tought she was gonna live at the Castle of the... ikes
[14:49] <Sylocat> wow
[14:49] <Whiteeyes> You can see it from Ponyville.
[14:49] <froborr> Yep. Castle of the Two Sisters was a red herring.
[14:49] <FoME> It was in a flower. What do flowers do? They make seeds.
[14:49] <froborr> Yep!
[14:49] <Sylocat> Ah, she gets her own Council room
[14:49] <froborr> And I actually think it's on the site of the library, though I'm not sure.
[14:50] <Whiteeyes> Council of Fiendship! Super Friends!
[14:50] <Sylocat> Well, the library did get destroyed
[14:50] <Whiteeyes> Song?
[14:50] <froborr> Meanwhile, at the Hall of Friendship...
[14:50] <Whiteeyes> Song.
[14:50] <Sylocat> There were only two songs?
[14:50] <Whiteeyes> Feels like this should be a series finally.
[14:50] <froborr> Hey, there were none in the Discord and Sombra two-parters.
[14:50] <Sylocat> I was expecting Tirek to get a villain song
[14:51] <Sylocat> Uh, the Crystal Empire had three songs
[14:51] <froborr> Not so much a finale as a relaunch.
[14:51] <froborr> ...
[14:51] <Whiteeyes> Discord Celestia?
[14:51] <froborr> Oh yeah, it did.
[14:51] <FoME> One last hurrah for that color scheme.
[14:51] <Sylocat> CELESCORD?! MY OTP!
[14:51] <Sylocat> Celestia x Discord!!!!!!!!!!!
[14:52] <Whiteeyes> NO FLUTTERCORD!
[14:52] <Sylocat> BEST. EPISODE. EVER.
[14:52] <Whiteeyes> It as awesome.
[14:52] <froborr> It wasn't Maud Pie good, but it was good.
[14:52] <FoME> I am now imagining Tirek vs. Maud Pie.
[14:52] <froborr> Maud Pie wins.
[14:53] <Whiteeyes> Only if there are large rocks around.
[14:53] <FoME> Well, obviously, but the collateral damage is horrifying.
[14:53] <froborr> Specifically, she does nothing while a host of angels appear from nowhere and take care of the problem for her.
[14:53] <froborr> ...I now actually kind of want to write Paradise Regained with Tirek and Maud.
[14:53] <Sylocat> Because she is our lord and savior
[14:53] <FoME> And Pinkie is her messenger? Angels were originally eldritch abominations...
[14:53] <Sylocat> Speaking of Milton, I'm currently rehearsing Shaw's "Don Juan in Hell"
[14:54] <Whiteeyes> Sooooo...why didn't Celestia hld that Magic for a mega-fight with Tirek? Twilight seemed to be doing pretty good.
[14:54] <froborr> ...I'm not familiar with the play, how is that "speaking of Milton"?
[14:54] <FoME> Once blasted in the horn by a love parasite, twice shy?
[14:54] <Sylocat> In it, the Devil (whom I am playing) talks about Paradise Lost, referring to Milton as one of the "two of the greatest fools who ever lived, an Italian and an Englishman"
[14:55] <Sylocat> (the Italian being Dante)
[14:55] <Whiteeyes> Oh yeah, there's a reason angels traditionally introduced themselves with "be not afraid"
[14:55] <froborr> So yeah, I was right about what was in the box: positions of leadership and teaching for all of them.
[14:55] <froborr> Wasn't expecting Spike to be included.
[14:55] <froborr> Ah, I see.
[14:55] <FoME> He even gets a little throne, which is more than can be said for Luna.
[14:55] <Whiteeyes> Yeah, Spike gets a throne.
[14:55] <froborr> Eldritch, yes. Abomination, no. They were sublime, not grotesque.
[14:56] <Whiteeyes> You got here pretty late FoME.
[14:56] <FoME> Right. Sorry, I tend to associate the words.
[14:56] <Whiteeyes> I am looking forward to the MtG cards from this.
[14:56] <Sylocat> I dunno, the way angels are described in the actual Bible, they sound pretty darn grotesque to me
[14:57] <froborr> That's okay, my editor caught me out doing something similar in vol. 2. I refer to Scrooge McDuck's sense of "innate superiority," because I associate the words, but there's nothing innate about it. He believes he earned it, not that he was born with it.
[14:57] <Whiteeyes> Let's see, a pillar of rire with a halo of burning eyes, a six winge man with three faces, two of a lion and one of a man, wheels of fire made of legs, yeah angels were not pretty.
[14:57] <froborr> Really? I think they mostly sound awesome.
[14:58] <Whiteeyes> Well, yeah they are. They are kick ass forces of good. They just aren't pretty little kids with dove wings.
[14:58] <FoME> Figures I only get the nerve to join one of these at the end of the last one.
[14:58] <Whiteeyes> Aww, FoME, these are fun!
[14:58] <Whiteeyes> You should oin in next year.
[14:58] <FoME> I definitely will.
[14:59] <froborr> That's my whole point, Whiteeyes: they're eldritch, btu not abominations.
[14:59] <froborr> Yes, join us!
[14:59] <froborr> ...I should find some other show we can do these for for the rest of the year.
[14:59] <Sylocat> Rick and Morty?
[14:59] <Whiteeyes> Log Horrizon?
[15:00] <froborr> I know not what these shows are.
[15:00] <Whiteeyes> Aphilosophically and social comentary focused anime
[15:00] <Whiteeyes> That's also got action.
[15:00] <Sylocat> www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/moviesandtv/columns/highdefinition/11404-The-Show-You-Should-Be-Watching-Rick-Morty
[15:01] <froborr> Well, I think I'm vageuly aware of Rick and Morty. I think it's an Adult Swim original series? So I steered clear...
[15:01] <Whiteeyes> i watched a couple episodes. It's really not my things.
[15:02] <froborr> Wait, it's Dan Harmon?
[15:02] <Sylocat> Eeyup
[15:02] <froborr> That's... potentially interesting.
[15:03] <Whiteeyes> So, does anyone else think this was the best Season finally to date?
[15:03] <Sylocat> It might very well be
[15:03] <froborr> ...do you mean best season finale, or that it ended up being the best season in the end?
[15:03] <froborr> Thought actually my answer is the same for both: yes.
[15:04] <Whiteeyes> Season 1 was meh, Season 2 felt lie it had a rushed ending, Season 3 was a controversy sparker of forest fire level, so yeah, as far as finallys themselves go, this was great!
[15:04] <FoME> It was... erratic. It certainly had the best episodes.
[15:04] <Whiteeyes> And it wasn't the damn GGG.
[15:04] <Whiteeyes> That was just disapointing.
[15:05] <froborr> I have liked all the season finales, but I do feel like they've gotten consecutively better as they went.
[15:05] <Whiteeyes> The GGG just didn't feel like a finally, it elt like a regular episode that just happened to end the season.
[15:06] <Whiteeyes> It asn't a bad episode, but damned by faint praise, you know?
[15:07] <froborr> Well, it wasn't meant to be a finale. The Discord episode was.
[15:07] <froborr> Which makes me wonder what two episodes were added last-minute to cover the gap...
[15:07] <Whiteeyes> Huh..I wonder too....quick, insert your most disliked episodes!
[15:08] <froborr> Actually, S4 has exactly the structure that the original S1 plan called for:
[15:08] <FoME> Weren't "The Ticket Master" and "Look Before You Sleep" going to be lumped together, back when they planned two cartoons per episode?
[15:09] <froborr> Slightly more adventure than we got, half-arc season, big social event as the second-to-last episode, starting and ending two-parters about ancient evils returning.
[15:09] <Whiteeyes> They were?
[15:09] <Whiteeyes> ....oh my God S4 is best S1.
[15:10] <froborr> Heck, this is the first I've heard that they were ever planning two shorts per episode.
[15:10] <Whiteeyes> Same here on that front.
[15:10] <Whiteeyes> FoME, source?
[15:10] <FoME> I could be wrong. Probably am. I thought I read it in one of Faust's deviantArt comments.
[15:11] <Sylocat> First I'd heard of it too
[15:11] <FoME> Years ago, at that. Yeah, let's just disregard crazyface over here.
[15:11] <froborr> Oh, it's entirely possible. I don't actually know that much about the show's production history.
[15:11] <Whiteeyes> It was probably scraped early on, but I could see it being considered early on.
[15:12] <Whiteeyes> Shows like this have to question what to do with those dieas.
[15:12] <Whiteeyes> *ideas
[15:12] <froborr> So, any final thoughts on the ep before I copypasta over to the blog?
[15:12] <Whiteeyes> Is it better for one long episode, or two shorts? Both have their pros and cons
[15:12] <froborr> I think for this show, the longer format works better.
[15:12] <FoME> I blame the Rainbow Power design on the Tree of Harmony being a tree.
[15:13] <FoME> The only thing it knows how to do with color is attract pollinators.
[15:13] <Whiteeyes> Tirek's powers should have been evil dark rainbow colored...and PONY BALL Z YAH!
[15:13] <froborr> FoME: Interesting. Explain?
[15:13] <Sylocat> Trees aren't known for their fashion sense
[15:13] <froborr> Oh. Lol.
[15:13] <Sylocat> Well, some trees are...
[15:13] <Whiteeyes> Tree fashion, definatly the cause of all the design problems.
[15:14] <froborr> Anyway, I think the longer format works better for a show that isn't going for wackiness as its main aesthetic. It allows for a slightly calmer pace, more room for subtler forms of characterization, that kind of thing.
[15:14] <Whiteeyes> I agree.
[15:14] <FoME> Indeed. Assuming I'm not misremembering, that's what Lauren fought for.
[15:14] <Whiteeyes> Brony fandom probably would never have spawned in a world with shorter skits.
[15:14] <froborr> While something like Adventure Time, say, definitely works well as 11-minute eps.
[15:15] <froborr> Okay, copypastaing.
[15:15] <Whiteeyes> Adventure Time has a mor meta plot that has made we shed pools of liquid pride.
[15:15] <Whiteeyes> I still cry whenever I watch "I Know You".
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[15:16] <froborr> Oh, I'm not saying it lacks characterization or emotion!
[15:16] <froborr> I'm just saying it's frenetically paced in a way that works well with the 11-minute format.
[15:16] <Whiteeyes> It's like the Ice King is her grandpa suffering from Alzheimers! It's so sad!
[15:16] <froborr> Adventure Time maintains a constant high level of energy. MLP is a bit calmer and slower.
[15:17] <froborr> Yes, I know. They've done an AMAZING job with Ice King.
[15:17] <Whiteeyes> Yes it is, and as such has as a result more nuance per episode per character, rather than slwly dishing it out over the seasons.
[15:17] <froborr> I can no longer think of the Cheer's theme without tearing up.
[15:17] <Whiteeyes> Yeah, what they did with Ice King was amazing.
[15:17] <froborr> Exactly, Whiteeyes.
[15:17] <froborr> Anyway.
[15:17] <froborr> Copypasta.
[15:17] <froborr> BRB.
[15:19] <froborr> back
[15:19] <Whiteeyes> I origionally thought the Ice King was just anoying. Now, I feel so sorry for him every time I see him. You made me feel empathic sorrow for a character whose main traits are obliviousness and being anoying! I should hate this guy! What did you do to my feels Adventure Time!
[15:19] <froborr> Yep.
[15:20] <froborr> The way I put it in my panel on the show is that it started as part of the Literary Nonsense tradition, meaning it had highly programmatic characters.
[15:21] <Whiteeyes> I've got no idea what half that menas.
[15:21] <froborr> But then it very slowly began putting in genuine emotion.
[15:21] <froborr> lol
[15:21] <Whiteeyes> I know what Nonsense Literature is.
[15:21] <Sylocat> Like many webcomics I can think of
[15:21] <Whiteeyes> Lewis Carol.
[15:21] <froborr> A programmatic character is one that's got one shtick and that's all they do. Like a robot with only one programmed behavior pattern.
[15:22] <froborr> Yep, Carroll is the most famous of the school.
[15:22] <Whiteeyes> Ah, a flat 1D character.
[15:22] <froborr> Yes, but specifically a gimmicky 1D character.
[15:22] <Whiteeyes> Aren't they by definition gimmicky?
[15:23] <Whiteeyes> What sort of 1D character isn't gimmicy?
[15:23] <froborr> No, they can also just be boring.
[15:23] <Whiteeyes> Example?
[15:24] <froborr> The unnamed stable boy who grooms the hero's horse while he's at the inn is a flat character.
[15:24] <Whiteeyes> Ah, I always thought of that as mobile scenery.
[15:24] <froborr> Fair enough.
[15:25] <froborr> So yeah, a programmatic character is a flat character one step above a mobile scenery.
[15:25] <Whiteeyes> Characters in my mind have at least a nominal impact on the story or plot.
[15:25] <froborr> Nonsense literature is inhabited by nothing but programmatic characters.
[15:25] <Whiteeyes> The stableboy could be replaced with a paring meter.
[15:25] <froborr> Except Adventure Time... isn't.
[15:25] <Whiteeyes> Like the White Rabbit, the Red Queen, etc.
[15:25] <froborr> Yep.
[15:26] <froborr> Even Alice herself to a degree.
[15:26] <Whiteeyes> Being late and overreacting are the characters only traits...but how is alice one?
[15:28] <froborr> Basically Alice's only trait is that she's unusually (but not 100%) tolerant of weirdness.
[15:28] <Whiteeyes> Did I just trigger a mega typing dump? This is like asking a philosopher at a party "why are you here" isn't it?
[15:28] <Whiteeyes> Oh thank goodness.
[15:28] <froborr> No, I just had to retype it several times.
[15:28] <froborr> Alice has no arc, is the key thing.
[15:28] <Whiteeyes> She doesn't?
[15:28] <froborr> We know exactly as much about her at the end of each book as we did at the beginning, and she has not changed at all either.
[15:29] <Whiteeyes> Oh wow...yeah I guess so. It's more like a travelogue and she's just a tourist.
[15:29] <froborr> Yep.
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[15:30] <froborr> I mean, I guess I didn't really define programmatic well at the beginning.
[15:30] <Whiteeyes> Huh, so the topic changed.
[15:31] <froborr> Really the key thing is that the character gives no indication of having any existence beyond their story role.
[15:31] <froborr> *groans*
[15:31] <Whiteeyes> Ah, so the guard they fight is just "the guard they fihgt", and has no existance beyond that fight scene.
[15:31] <froborr> Yep.
[15:32] <Whiteeyes> Which is why the heroes can slaughter them wholesale, they aren't actually people with any lives beyond the fight scene!
[15:32] <froborr> Exactly.
[15:32] <Whiteeyes> lol
[15:33] <Whiteeyes> Unless it's Gargoyles.
[15:33] <froborr> Whereas with a non-programmatic character, you get some indication either of what they were like before they entered the story, or of something in their life outside their role in the story, or if they change over the course of the story, that creates an implication of that change being carried into some life beyond the story.
[15:33] <froborr> Or Discworld.
[15:33] <Sylocat> Or Order of the Stick
[15:33] <Whiteeyes> Gargoyles did it first.
[15:34] <froborr> Pretty sure Guards! Guards! predates Gargoyles.
[15:34] <Whiteeyes> With a nameless guard from an early episode getting an episode dedicated to him tracking down Goliath to get vengence.
[15:34] <froborr> Heck, even LOTR has the scene with the dead Harad soldier.
[15:34] <froborr> That's pretty awesome.
[15:34] <Whiteeyes> Oh, I meant a nameless guard from an earlier part of the story come back as a major character.
[15:35] <Whiteeyes> Guards Guards is about the guards to start with, it doesn't count.
[15:35] <froborr> Unrelated: I asked on the DC Bronies Facebook page what the punning pony name for DC should be.
[15:35] <Sylocat> The seventh Harry Potter book did this as well
[15:35] <froborr> Current favorite response: "Our nation's clopital"
[15:35] <Whiteeyes> Really? Deathly Hallows?
[15:36] <froborr> I would have pointed to the fifth Harry Potter myself, and Kreacher.
[15:38] <Whiteeyes> I don't know. Kreacher got fleshed out prety well in one book. The Gargoyles episode was early Season 1 and late Season 2.
[15:38] <Sylocat> And of course, Game of Thrones
[15:39] <froborr> What about Game of Thrones?
[15:39] <Whiteeyes> Part of the guys complaint was that "he was a nobody that nobody remembers", and then it flashbacks to where we saw him before and I went "huh, I totally forgot about that guy.....damn it"
[15:40] <froborr> Another good scene like that: the Avatar the Last Airbender finale. The birthday thing.
[15:40] <Whiteeyes> My favorite joke of the series.
[15:40] <Whiteeyes> "I can't believe the captain rmembered my birthday! He really does care!"
[15:40] <froborr> I actually like the two guys making awkward small talk immediately before the reveal even better than the reveal.
[15:41] <Whiteeyes> Those were the series creeators.
[15:41] <froborr> Really? That's awesome.
[15:41] <Whiteeyes> yeah, it makes it even better.
[15:42] <froborr> Really, though, that's what the whole third season was about: putting a face to the fire Nation.
[15:42] <Whiteeyes> Yep, and season 2 was "Not every non-fire person is automatically good."
[15:42] <Whiteeyes> Way to show wars are complex in terms kids can understand!
[15:44] <Whiteeyes> Seriously, its like we're living in a new animation renesance and getto at he same time.
[15:45] <froborr> How do you mean?
[15:45] <froborr> I mean, I'm on the record as believing we live in the a second Golden Age of Animation that started in '87.
[15:45] <froborr> Where's the ghetto?
[15:48] <Whiteeyes> Okay, we get Avatar, MPL:FiM, Symbionic Titan (canceled), Adventure Time, and Samurai Jack as examples of the good. Then we have things like Fanboy and Chumchum, Breadwinners, Sanjay and Craig, and most of the new Spongebob stuff that's just bad.
[15:48] <Whiteeyes> And that's ust stuff currently on the air.
[15:50] <Whiteeyes> We've got this weird mix of ultra good and ltra bad goig on at the same time.
[15:54] <Whiteeyes> Anyway, I've got to get going guys.
[15:54] <froborr> Later!
[15:55] <froborr> Sorry, got called AFK.
[15:55] <froborr> There's *always* bad though... what makes a period good is that there's something besides the bad, not necessarily that there's less bad.
[15:55] <Sylocat> I should probably get back to procrastinating working on blocking notes by working on "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Ponies"
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[15:56] <froborr> lol, okay
[15:56] <Sylocat> Anyway... this was fun
[15:56] <froborr> I guess I'll watch some Bakemonogatari
[15:56] <froborr> It was!
[15:56] <froborr> Later!
[15:56] <Sylocat> Later
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[13:43] <Whiteeyes> So, Jackalopes.
[13:43] <froborr> Indeed.
[13:43] <Sylocat> Hello
[13:43] <Sylocat> Glad you could make it
[13:43] <Whiteeyes> So, for once I did not watch ahead f time.
[13:43] <froborr> ...I actually did.
[13:43] <Whiteeyes> Thanks, it,s great to be here.
[13:43] <Whiteeyes> Wait, what?!
[13:43] <froborr> They ended up showing it at the party after all, but then the party ended early.
[13:44] <Whiteeyes> Ah.
[13:44] <froborr> So hear I am.
[13:44] <Whiteeyes> Now you get to know how I feel usually.
[13:44] <froborr> *here
[13:44] <froborr> *shakes head*
[13:44] <Sylocat> mere_oblivion can't make it, and I haven't heard back from draftpunk, so I was worried I'd be going it solo
[13:44] <Whiteeyes> Knowing what's going on/coming up but unable to say anything.
[13:44] <Whiteeyes> Because SPOILERS!
[13:45] <Sylocat> 15 minutes
[13:45] <froborr> I still can't believe it turned out that Dinky Doo imagined the entirety of the series so far.
[13:45] <Sylocat> Ah yes, the St. Elsewhere ending
[13:45] <froborr> Yep.
[13:45] <Whiteeyes> I made extra sure not to spoil myself and resist the temptation of watching it at the premier like I usually do ust so I could watch it with you guys.
[13:45] <Whiteeyes> :<
[13:45] <Sylocat> (though it hasn't qualified as a twist since The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, if not earlier
[13:46] <froborr> And then it turns out Time Turner is some kind of immortal alien time traveler. I guess Season 5 will be about him? I dunno, it doesn't sound like much of a premise to build a show around.
[13:47] <Sylocat> Yeah, who would watch a show like that?
[13:48] <froborr> I wish I had yogurt.
[13:48] <Whiteeyes> I'm eating yogurt right now...with raspberries.
[13:48] <froborr> The Indian food I got last night is nigh-inedibly spicy, but I bet it would be really good if I added yogurt, you see.
[13:49] <Whiteeyes> Ypgurt goes great with it, especially if you mix it with nan bread.
[13:50] <Sylocat> 10 minutes
[13:51] <Whiteeyes> I've been passing the time watching the pony version of the flop.
[13:51] <Whiteeyes> Everybody do the flop!
[13:51] <Whiteeyes> *thud*
[13:52] <Sylocat> Or do the rubber chicken dance
[13:52] <froborr> Turns out that the spiciness ratings are relative to the dish, not restaurant wide, so asking them to make the vindalu spicy results in something WAY spicier than a spicy chicken tikka masala.
[13:52] <Whiteeyes> And then your head spontaniously combusts.
[13:52] <Sylocat> Yikes
[13:52] <froborr> Pretty much.
[13:53] <froborr> Anyway, yeah, I went to the finale party.
[13:53] <froborr> Afternoon will be mostly dedicated to Bakemonogatari and possibly napping.
[13:53] <froborr> And tomorrow I'm going to a character creation session for a campaign of the Doctor Who RPG.
[13:53] <Sylocat> I remember one time, my cousin took us to a Jamaican restaurant for her birthday... everything on the menu was spicy as hell, and the restaurant literally did not have any milk at all
[13:53] <Whiteeyes> There is a WHO RPG?!
[13:54] <froborr> Don't get me wrong, I like spicy food. It's just that a vindalu is pretty spicy, so I ordered a spicy one expecting a normal vindalu, not something that makes vindalus break down and weep in terror.
[13:55] <froborr> Whiteeyes: Apparently yes?
[13:55] <froborr> 5 minutes
[13:56] <froborr> They didn't have any jerk chicken or jerk pork? That's usually heavily seasoned, but not actually spicy...
[13:56] <Whiteeyes> I am a major RPG enthusiast. I have over a dozen diferent RPGs in PDF format on my ipad alone. I am very intested in hearing about it, maybe as a post-session post about how it plays?
[13:56] <froborr> Sure, I could do that.
[13:56] <Sylocat> I love RPGs as well... draftpunk is part of my Pathfinder group
[13:57] <froborr> I like RPGs a lot, I just have no one to play with.
[13:57] <froborr> Online just doesn't work in my experience.
[13:57] <Whiteeyes> Neat, I DM an eastern flavor Pathfinder group.
[13:57] <Whiteeyes> PbP has a tone of problems, yeah.
[13:58] <froborr> Playing over Skype doesn't work much better IMO.
[13:58] <froborr> I get to run BESM at AUSA once a year. That is usually it for me. Getting to actually play in a game is going to be nice!
[13:58] <Whiteeyes> Which edition/version?
[13:58] <froborr> The good one. Second.
[13:58] <Whiteeyes> Ah.
[13:58] <froborr> Revised Second, actually, though I'm not sure what the difference between that and unrevised is, I've never seen a copy.
[13:59] <Sylocat> 1 minute
[13:59] <Whiteeyes> I only know the d20 and Third
[13:59] <froborr> They suck.
[13:59] <Whiteeyes> Third is not that bad
[13:59] <Sylocat> ready...
[13:59] <froborr> They basically combine all of BESM's flaws with all of D&D's.
[14:00] <Whiteeyes> Okay yeah d20 sucked.
[14:00] <Sylocat> click
[14:00] <froborr> Go!
[14:00] <Sylocat> Oh, Spike
[14:00] <Whiteeyes> Load damn you load!
[14:00] <froborr> Heheh, take that RD's ego.
[14:01] <Whiteeyes> "Point taken."
[14:01] <Sylocat> Pinkie...?
[14:01] <Whiteeyes> AJ got it right, it's not a different way of smiling and waving.
[14:01] <Sylocat> Flash?!
[14:01] <Sylocat> Oh yikes
[14:01] <Whiteeyes> Twilight has a point, she hasnt done much as a princess.
[14:01] <Sylocat> The fans will NOT be happy about him
[14:02] <Sylocat> Ah, so THIS is who those nobleponies were in Equestria Games
[14:02] <Whiteeyes> I remember these guys from the Games!
[14:02] <froborr> Oh, that was him, wasn't he! Thought the voice was familiar.
[14:02] <Whiteeyes> THAT WAS IT oh Spke beat me to it.
[14:02] <froborr> Are you slightly behind Whiteeyes? Want us to pause for 10 seconds?
[14:02] <Sylocat> Yeah, the fanbase utterly loathes him
[14:02] <Whiteeyes> Nah, im good.
[14:02] <Whiteeyes> brb
[14:03] <Sylocat> Oh yikes...
[14:03] <Sylocat> Who is he supposed to be?
[14:03] <froborr> I don't really know.
[14:03] <froborr> Duke of something.
[14:03] <froborr> Maretania?
[14:04] <Sylocat> Hey, she's the Princess of Books
[14:04] <Sylocat> Ooh, musical number
[14:04] <froborr> Yeah, I liked that comic.
[14:05] <Sylocat> They went all-out for this one
[14:05] <Sylocat> Ooh, Celestia gets to sing!
[14:05] <froborr> Yeah, solid animation bump.
[14:05] <froborr> I wonder if there's an aurora every time she sings.
[14:05] <froborr> Also: Twilight/Luna parallel, I see you.
[14:06] <Sylocat> And of course she's going to get her "castle" thanks to the castle of the sisters
[14:06] <Sylocat> Wow, this is an elaborate number
[14:06] <froborr> Yeah.
[14:07] <Sylocat> Oh, are we about to meet the villain?
[14:07] <Whiteeyes> Back.
[14:07] <Sylocat> Please be Tirek, please be Tirek...
[14:07] <Sylocat> Or not
[14:07] <Whiteeyes> Good thing about having it on Ipad, I can take it with me
[14:07] <Sylocat> WHAT?!
[14:07] <froborr> =)
[14:08] <Sylocat> Did he say Tirek?! This is Tirek!
[14:08] <froborr> Not just Tirek.
[14:08] <froborr> Explicitly the *return* of Tirek.
[14:08] <Whiteeyes> MAGIC EATER!
[14:08] <Whiteeyes> The CUTIE MARK IS GONE!
[14:08] <Sylocat> HOLY ROADAPPLES
[14:08] <Sylocat> Does this mean G1 is canon?
[14:09] <Whiteeyes> THE BOOK!
[14:09] <Sylocat> Whoa, that was Star Swirl the Bearded
[14:09] <froborr> It's really hard to say.
[14:09] <Sylocat> Ooh, are we going to see Tartarus?
[14:09] <Whiteeyes> Skorpan!?
[14:09] <Whiteeyes> How much G1 would there be?
[14:09] <Whiteeyes> Season 2 escape, so...less than a year?
[14:10] <froborr> Yep.
[14:10] <Sylocat> Ah yes, that look they gave Fluttershy
[14:10] <Whiteeyes> Fluttershy is right, give him a chance! He's good now!
[14:10] <Sylocat> Yep, that castle is going to be her "kingdom"
[14:10] <Whiteeyes> If you're all jerks to him, of course he'll be a jerk back.
[14:10] <Sylocat> Is he wearing a Tom Baker scarf?
[14:11] <Whiteeyes> Marry Poppins!
[14:11] <froborr> No, he was dressed as Mary Poppins.
[14:11] <Sylocat> General MacArthur?
[14:11] <Sylocat> Ah yes, Mary Poppins
[14:11] <Sylocat> Oh yikes, Princess Discord
[14:11] <Sylocat> That will be the new meme
[14:11] <Sylocat> Ooh, the box
[14:11] <Whiteeyes> RD was kinda jerk there.
[14:12] <Sylocat> Wait, Discord WANTS her to open it?
[14:12] <Sylocat> What's he up to?
[14:12] <Whiteeyes> Discord, see he's being nice in his own way!
[14:12] <froborr> I seriously love not-actually-evil-just-a-manipulative-jerk Discord.
[14:12] <Whiteeyes> Even Flutttershy isn't buying that one.
[14:12] <Sylocat> Oh jeepers
[14:13] <Whiteeyes> Did Discord just mark the keys for them?
[14:13] <Sylocat> Yep, he even used labels matching the colors
[14:13] <Whiteeyes> Discord is best tricster mentor.
[14:14] <Sylocat> Toucord
[14:14] <Sylocat> Ew
[14:14] <Sylocat> Ah, of course they know each other
[14:14] <Whiteeyes> Discord pwns.
[14:14] <Sylocat> And the world of fanfiction did tremble
[14:14] <Whiteeyes> Yeay Fluttsershy!
[14:15] <Whiteeyes> Tirek is perfectly manipulating this.
[14:15] <Sylocat> Oh, will this be Discord's ACTUAL redemption? He falls for Tirek's silver tongue, but has to learn that it actually does mean something to him?
[14:15] <froborr> He really is. Makes sense, he is the senior villain.
[14:16] <Whiteeyes> Discord, think about it, this would make Fluttershy cry!
[14:16] <Sylocat> Eeyup, he marked the keys for them
[14:16] <Whiteeyes> See, her picture is one of your three possessions in the world!
[14:16] <Whiteeyes> We don't need all the flashbacks!
[14:16] <Sylocat> Ah yes, the clip show episode
[14:17] <froborr> At least the clips are really short.
[14:17] <froborr> And it probably is worth reminding the target audience about this. Baby's First Season-Long Arc.
[14:17] <Whiteeyes> Do we need to see the clips? Twilight is telling us what they are!
[14:17] <Sylocat> Pinkie interrupts the flashback
[14:17] <Whiteeyes> Okay, they only did two.
[14:18] <Sylocat> She really does have the Fourth Wall power, and she knows the audience will get bored
[14:18] <Sylocat> So she interrupts
[14:18] <Whiteeyes> KEYS!
[14:18] <Whiteeyes> And then AJ spent hers...
[14:18] <froborr> I really like that they verbally acknowledged that part of it was teaching someone else about the element, I was worried that would be left just lying there.
[14:19] <Whiteeyes> Pinkie, leave boneless alone...never mind
[14:19] <Sylocat> Ooh, 3D
[14:19] <Whiteeyes> Okay those keys look awesome!
[14:20] <Whiteeyes> Magic = Friendshp is the moral again.
[14:20] <Sylocat> Eeyup, Discord sold them out
[14:20] <Sylocat> And he looks more like his old self
[14:20] <Whiteeyes> NOT LYRA!
[14:21] <Sylocat> Yeesh, this is a creepy one
[14:21] <Whiteeyes> Twilight, none of you except Flutershy really were friendly with him.
[14:21] <froborr> It would have been funny if getting her power drained caused DH's eyes to straighten out.
[14:21] <Whiteeyes> No, Derpy!
[14:21] <Whiteeyes> So, EArth Pony Strength Power is canon.
[14:21] <Sylocat> ...How the heck does that work?
[14:22] <Whiteeyes> Take a quick break?
[14:22] <froborr> k
[14:22] <Sylocat> How long?
[14:22] <Sylocat> Start at half past, or sooner?
[14:22] <Whiteeyes> Eh just a couple minutes to discuss that ending.
[14:22] <Whiteeyes> Half past sounds good.
[14:22] <froborr> Half past sounds good.
[14:22] <froborr> We'll resume from the 22 minute mark.
[14:22] <Whiteeyes> So yeah, thoughts on part one?
[14:23] <froborr> I will be mostly quiet in this discussion, since I've seen part two.
[14:23] <Sylocat> It was... whoa
[14:23] <Sylocat> I thought it was surprising when they namedropped Firefly
[14:23] <froborr> Did they?
[14:23] <Whiteeyes> I am so disapointed in Discord, I thought he knew better.
[14:23] <froborr> I missed that!
[14:23] <Sylocat> I didn't seriously think they'd gotten Tirek back as well
[14:23] <Sylocat> Yeah, in "Testing, Testing, 1,2,3," it's said that General Firefly founded the Wonderbolts
[14:24] <froborr> Oh, right.
[14:24] <froborr> I thought you meant in this episode.
[14:24] <Whiteeyes> Then again as I've always complained, nopony else ever treats him nice besides Fluttershy.
[14:24] <Whiteeyes> And then Twilght goes "But didn't our friendship mean anything?"
[14:24] <Whiteeyes> And you can just hear AJ's airquotes wheever she says "friends" about him.
[14:25] <Whiteeyes> Reap what you sow!
[14:25] <Whiteeyes> I am feeling ranty today aparently.
[14:25] <froborr> Well, but by the same principle, he's an obnoxious jerk pretty consistently.
[14:26] <Whiteeyes> Yes, it's almost as if he's never had a friend and is learning how to be one.
[14:26] <Whiteeyes> He even bookmarked it for Twilight!
[14:27] <Whiteeyes> DISCORD IS BEST PRINCESS!
[14:27] <Sylocat> He expressed disappointment that he hadn't ruined Twilight's and Cadance's visit
[14:27] <froborr> No, he has done nice things for them, most notably the book. But he is also actively malicious toward them for his own amusement.
[14:27] <froborr> That's not "hasn't learned how to be a friend yet," that's "isn't really interested in being friends."
[14:27] <Whiteeyes> He's like a kid punching people because he's bored.
[14:28] <Sylocat> And that's a bad thing
[14:28] <Sylocat> 2 minutes
[14:28] <froborr> What kind of kid does that!?
[14:28] <Whiteeyes> The boed kind that hasn't learned that it's not okay to do that.
[14:29] <Sylocat> There's only so much you can teach a kid who doesn't know it's not okay to punch people just because he's bored
[14:29] <Sylocat> 1 minute
[14:29] <froborr> Yeah, that's kind of basic human empathy.
[14:29] <Whiteeyes> Not everybody gets that.
[14:29] <Sylocat> Here... we... go...
[14:29] <Sylocat> (as the Joker would say)
[14:29] <froborr> Well, sure, but that's not the fault of the people around the kid.
[14:30] <Sylocat> Click
[14:30] <froborr> I like the Previously On music.
[14:30] <Whiteeyes> So...when was Tirek sealed away anyway?
[14:30] <Sylocat> In G1, that's when
[14:31] <Whiteeyes> He was sealed at least after Discord so he knew that Discord had been sealed.
[14:31] <Sylocat> Well, given that Firefly took him down, and Firefly founded the Wonderbolts after the NMM incident
[14:31] <froborr> Man, Discord rubbing his hands together in Fluttershy's window is WAY creepier now.
[14:31] <Sylocat> Eeyup
[14:32] <Whiteeyes> Twilight, guard all our "Buy some Apples!" against the evil super being!
[14:32] <Sylocat> Wait, he knows about Cadance, but not Twilight?
[14:32] <froborr> Yep.
[14:32] <Sylocat> And Discord didn't tell him?
[14:32] <Sylocat> Oops, she's about to get shimmery eyes, isn't she?
[14:32] <froborr> Cadance is apparently quite old after all.
[14:32] <Whiteeyes> Celestia "No getting your super save the world friends to help" Celestia's plan is brilliant!
[14:33] <Sylocat> Or this is another test
[14:33] <Whiteeyes> SPIRIT BOMB!
[14:33] <froborr> Well, with the Elements of Harmony gone, there isn't much her friends can do to help.
[14:33] <Sylocat> Yeesh... Twilight's gotta take on all of that?
[14:33] <Sylocat> Ah, so Discord's playing Tirek as well
[14:33] <froborr> Twilight absorbed the Spirit Bomb to go Super Saiyan!
[14:33] <Whiteeyes> Okay, Twilight, hide somewhere people won't be able to find you!
[14:34] <froborr> So the black mark on Luna isn't part of her cutie mark.
[14:34] <Sylocat> That answers one fan question
[14:34] <Whiteeyes> Okay Twilight, don't screw up!
[14:34] <Sylocat> Duh...
[14:34] <Sylocat> So, Twilight IS going to give this power back when it's over, right?
[14:34] <Sylocat> Wow, Twilight's changing the time of day even faster than Discord
[14:35] <Sylocat> Discord's having a crisis of conscience
[14:35] <Whiteeyes> So, how did they beat Tirek ast time?
[14:35] <froborr> They said, his brother helped.
[14:36] <Whiteeyes> No Twilight, don't lie like that.
[14:36] <Whiteeyes> Teleport!
[14:36] <Sylocat> Wait, where ARE the others?
[14:36] <Sylocat> Oh, that's where (one of them) is
[14:36] <Sylocat> And she thought flying was rough before!
[14:36] <Whiteeyes> NOT NOW!
[14:36] <Sylocat> She's overloading
[14:37] <Whiteeyes> I hate "I have to do this alone" plots.
[14:37] <Whiteeyes> PONY BALLS!
[14:37] <Sylocat> Whoa
[14:37] <Sylocat> He tossed them into paintings, like in Super Mario 64
[14:37] <froborr> Tartarus!
[14:38] <Sylocat> Oh no... is THAT the last key?
[14:38] <froborr> I love the sandwich sword.
[14:38] <Whiteeyes> I haven't touched that one yet!
[14:38] <Sylocat> So, Discord has to know that Twilight's not actually there
[14:38] <froborr> Him melting the stained glass is hardcore.
[14:39] <froborr> NO FLUTTERSHY DON'T CRY
[14:39] <Sylocat> Oh yikes, the fandom wants to clobber Discord right now
[14:39] <Whiteeyes> Fluttershy, you probably feel as bad as I do.
[14:40] <Whiteeyes> Ironic echo!
[14:41] <Sylocat> Well, at least Tirek will have trouble finding her
[14:41] <Sylocat> Or not
[14:41] <Whiteeyes> Oh boy, at least she saved the owl.
[14:41] <Sylocat> Oh, it... is... ON.
[14:41] <froborr> Yeah. Bye-bye library.
[14:42] <Whiteeyes> KAMEHAMEHA!
[14:42] <Sylocat> Tirek is going down so hard
[14:42] <Whiteeyes> KAIOKEN TIMES TEN!
[14:42] <Sylocat> Now this is a dark one
[14:43] <froborr> This is a pretty brutal fight, yeah.
[14:43] <Whiteeyes> Holy geeze it is Pony Ball Z, I was just kidding!
[14:43] <Whiteeyes> Don't do it, that's a really bad idea!
[14:43] <froborr> Except that if it were Pony Ball Z, this two-parter would have been a season long.
[14:44] <Sylocat> Tirek is going down
[14:44] <Sylocat> Hard
[14:44] <Sylocat> Oh yikes, he said the "as you wish" line
[14:44] <Whiteeyes> Discord key time!
[14:45] <Whiteeyes> GOJIRA!
[14:45] <Sylocat> It's fitting that it belonged to Tirek's brother
[14:45] <froborr> Yeah.
[14:46] <Whiteeyes> Tirek kicked his own ass, the best kind of ironic defeat!
[14:46] <Sylocat> And here comes the Rainbow Power toy line, am I right?
[14:46] <Whiteeyes> RainbowPower!?
[14:46] <Whiteeyes> MY GUESS WAS RIGHT!
[14:46] <Sylocat> They've been showing ads for it since... YIKES
[14:47] <Whiteeyes> I guessed this sense the season premier!
[14:47] <Sylocat> Oh sheesh those look horrible
[14:47] <froborr> Twilight is the only one that doesn't look like ass.
[14:47] <Sylocat> It's only temporary, right?
[14:47] <Whiteeyes> The toys look better.
[14:47] <Whiteeyes> OH NO.
[14:48] <Whiteeyes> THE TOYS LOOK BETTER.
[14:48] <froborr> Should we be worried that the ONLY cell with someone in it in Tartarus is Tirek?
[14:48] == FoME [IP REDACTED] has joined ##rabbitcube
[14:48] <Sylocat> Mom just said, "What about the library?"
[14:48] <froborr> Meanwhile the rainbow wave passes through the CMC. They look hopefully at their flanks... nope.
[14:48] <Whiteeyes> And they change back, thank God.
[14:49] <Sylocat> ...A new library?
[14:49] <Whiteeyes> Best palace.
[14:49] <Sylocat> I tought she was gonna live at the Castle of the... ikes
[14:49] <Sylocat> wow
[14:49] <Whiteeyes> You can see it from Ponyville.
[14:49] <froborr> Yep. Castle of the Two Sisters was a red herring.
[14:49] <FoME> It was in a flower. What do flowers do? They make seeds.
[14:49] <froborr> Yep!
[14:49] <Sylocat> Ah, she gets her own Council room
[14:49] <froborr> And I actually think it's on the site of the library, though I'm not sure.
[14:50] <Whiteeyes> Council of Fiendship! Super Friends!
[14:50] <Sylocat> Well, the library did get destroyed
[14:50] <Whiteeyes> Song?
[14:50] <froborr> Meanwhile, at the Hall of Friendship...
[14:50] <Whiteeyes> Song.
[14:50] <Sylocat> There were only two songs?
[14:50] <Whiteeyes> Feels like this should be a series finally.
[14:50] <froborr> Hey, there were none in the Discord and Sombra two-parters.
[14:50] <Sylocat> I was expecting Tirek to get a villain song
[14:51] <Sylocat> Uh, the Crystal Empire had three songs
[14:51] <froborr> Not so much a finale as a relaunch.
[14:51] <froborr> ...
[14:51] <Whiteeyes> Discord Celestia?
[14:51] <froborr> Oh yeah, it did.
[14:51] <FoME> One last hurrah for that color scheme.
[14:51] <Sylocat> CELESCORD?! MY OTP!
[14:51] <Sylocat> Celestia x Discord!!!!!!!!!!!
[14:52] <Whiteeyes> NO FLUTTERCORD!
[14:52] <Sylocat> BEST. EPISODE. EVER.
[14:52] <Whiteeyes> It as awesome.
[14:52] <froborr> It wasn't Maud Pie good, but it was good.
[14:52] <FoME> I am now imagining Tirek vs. Maud Pie.
[14:52] <froborr> Maud Pie wins.
[14:53] <Whiteeyes> Only if there are large rocks around.
[14:53] <FoME> Well, obviously, but the collateral damage is horrifying.
[14:53] <froborr> Specifically, she does nothing while a host of angels appear from nowhere and take care of the problem for her.
[14:53] <froborr> ...I now actually kind of want to write Paradise Regained with Tirek and Maud.
[14:53] <Sylocat> Because she is our lord and savior
[14:53] <FoME> And Pinkie is her messenger? Angels were originally eldritch abominations...
[14:53] <Sylocat> Speaking of Milton, I'm currently rehearsing Shaw's "Don Juan in Hell"
[14:54] <Whiteeyes> Sooooo...why didn't Celestia hld that Magic for a mega-fight with Tirek? Twilight seemed to be doing pretty good.
[14:54] <froborr> ...I'm not familiar with the play, how is that "speaking of Milton"?
[14:54] <FoME> Once blasted in the horn by a love parasite, twice shy?
[14:54] <Sylocat> In it, the Devil (whom I am playing) talks about Paradise Lost, referring to Milton as one of the "two of the greatest fools who ever lived, an Italian and an Englishman"
[14:55] <Sylocat> (the Italian being Dante)
[14:55] <Whiteeyes> Oh yeah, there's a reason angels traditionally introduced themselves with "be not afraid"
[14:55] <froborr> So yeah, I was right about what was in the box: positions of leadership and teaching for all of them.
[14:55] <froborr> Wasn't expecting Spike to be included.
[14:55] <froborr> Ah, I see.
[14:55] <FoME> He even gets a little throne, which is more than can be said for Luna.
[14:55] <Whiteeyes> Yeah, Spike gets a throne.
[14:55] <froborr> Eldritch, yes. Abomination, no. They were sublime, not grotesque.
[14:56] <Whiteeyes> You got here pretty late FoME.
[14:56] <FoME> Right. Sorry, I tend to associate the words.
[14:56] <Whiteeyes> I am looking forward to the MtG cards from this.
[14:56] <Sylocat> I dunno, the way angels are described in the actual Bible, they sound pretty darn grotesque to me
[14:57] <froborr> That's okay, my editor caught me out doing something similar in vol. 2. I refer to Scrooge McDuck's sense of "innate superiority," because I associate the words, but there's nothing innate about it. He believes he earned it, not that he was born with it.
[14:57] <Whiteeyes> Let's see, a pillar of rire with a halo of burning eyes, a six winge man with three faces, two of a lion and one of a man, wheels of fire made of legs, yeah angels were not pretty.
[14:57] <froborr> Really? I think they mostly sound awesome.
[14:58] <Whiteeyes> Well, yeah they are. They are kick ass forces of good. They just aren't pretty little kids with dove wings.
[14:58] <FoME> Figures I only get the nerve to join one of these at the end of the last one.
[14:58] <Whiteeyes> Aww, FoME, these are fun!
[14:58] <Whiteeyes> You should oin in next year.
[14:58] <FoME> I definitely will.
[14:59] <froborr> That's my whole point, Whiteeyes: they're eldritch, btu not abominations.
[14:59] <froborr> Yes, join us!
[14:59] <froborr> ...I should find some other show we can do these for for the rest of the year.
[14:59] <Sylocat> Rick and Morty?
[14:59] <Whiteeyes> Log Horrizon?
[15:00] <froborr> I know not what these shows are.
[15:00] <Whiteeyes> Aphilosophically and social comentary focused anime
[15:00] <Whiteeyes> That's also got action.
[15:00] <Sylocat> www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/moviesandtv/columns/highdefinition/11404-The-Show-You-Should-Be-Watching-Rick-Morty
[15:01] <froborr> Well, I think I'm vageuly aware of Rick and Morty. I think it's an Adult Swim original series? So I steered clear...
[15:01] <Whiteeyes> i watched a couple episodes. It's really not my things.
[15:02] <froborr> Wait, it's Dan Harmon?
[15:02] <Sylocat> Eeyup
[15:02] <froborr> That's... potentially interesting.
[15:03] <Whiteeyes> So, does anyone else think this was the best Season finally to date?
[15:03] <Sylocat> It might very well be
[15:03] <froborr> ...do you mean best season finale, or that it ended up being the best season in the end?
[15:03] <froborr> Thought actually my answer is the same for both: yes.
[15:04] <Whiteeyes> Season 1 was meh, Season 2 felt lie it had a rushed ending, Season 3 was a controversy sparker of forest fire level, so yeah, as far as finallys themselves go, this was great!
[15:04] <FoME> It was... erratic. It certainly had the best episodes.
[15:04] <Whiteeyes> And it wasn't the damn GGG.
[15:04] <Whiteeyes> That was just disapointing.
[15:05] <froborr> I have liked all the season finales, but I do feel like they've gotten consecutively better as they went.
[15:05] <Whiteeyes> The GGG just didn't feel like a finally, it elt like a regular episode that just happened to end the season.
[15:06] <Whiteeyes> It asn't a bad episode, but damned by faint praise, you know?
[15:07] <froborr> Well, it wasn't meant to be a finale. The Discord episode was.
[15:07] <froborr> Which makes me wonder what two episodes were added last-minute to cover the gap...
[15:07] <Whiteeyes> Huh..I wonder too....quick, insert your most disliked episodes!
[15:08] <froborr> Actually, S4 has exactly the structure that the original S1 plan called for:
[15:08] <FoME> Weren't "The Ticket Master" and "Look Before You Sleep" going to be lumped together, back when they planned two cartoons per episode?
[15:09] <froborr> Slightly more adventure than we got, half-arc season, big social event as the second-to-last episode, starting and ending two-parters about ancient evils returning.
[15:09] <Whiteeyes> They were?
[15:09] <Whiteeyes> ....oh my God S4 is best S1.
[15:10] <froborr> Heck, this is the first I've heard that they were ever planning two shorts per episode.
[15:10] <Whiteeyes> Same here on that front.
[15:10] <Whiteeyes> FoME, source?
[15:10] <FoME> I could be wrong. Probably am. I thought I read it in one of Faust's deviantArt comments.
[15:11] <Sylocat> First I'd heard of it too
[15:11] <FoME> Years ago, at that. Yeah, let's just disregard crazyface over here.
[15:11] <froborr> Oh, it's entirely possible. I don't actually know that much about the show's production history.
[15:11] <Whiteeyes> It was probably scraped early on, but I could see it being considered early on.
[15:12] <Whiteeyes> Shows like this have to question what to do with those dieas.
[15:12] <Whiteeyes> *ideas
[15:12] <froborr> So, any final thoughts on the ep before I copypasta over to the blog?
[15:12] <Whiteeyes> Is it better for one long episode, or two shorts? Both have their pros and cons
[15:12] <froborr> I think for this show, the longer format works better.
[15:12] <FoME> I blame the Rainbow Power design on the Tree of Harmony being a tree.
[15:13] <FoME> The only thing it knows how to do with color is attract pollinators.
[15:13] <Whiteeyes> Tirek's powers should have been evil dark rainbow colored...and PONY BALL Z YAH!
[15:13] <froborr> FoME: Interesting. Explain?
[15:13] <Sylocat> Trees aren't known for their fashion sense
[15:13] <froborr> Oh. Lol.
[15:13] <Sylocat> Well, some trees are...
[15:13] <Whiteeyes> Tree fashion, definatly the cause of all the design problems.
[15:14] <froborr> Anyway, I think the longer format works better for a show that isn't going for wackiness as its main aesthetic. It allows for a slightly calmer pace, more room for subtler forms of characterization, that kind of thing.
[15:14] <Whiteeyes> I agree.
[15:14] <FoME> Indeed. Assuming I'm not misremembering, that's what Lauren fought for.
[15:14] <Whiteeyes> Brony fandom probably would never have spawned in a world with shorter skits.
[15:14] <froborr> While something like Adventure Time, say, definitely works well as 11-minute eps.
[15:15] <froborr> Okay, copypastaing.
[15:15] <Whiteeyes> Adventure Time has a mor meta plot that has made we shed pools of liquid pride.
[15:15] <Whiteeyes> I still cry whenever I watch "I Know You".
[15:15] == FoME [IP REDACTED] has left ##rabbitcube []
[15:16] <froborr> Oh, I'm not saying it lacks characterization or emotion!
[15:16] <froborr> I'm just saying it's frenetically paced in a way that works well with the 11-minute format.
[15:16] <Whiteeyes> It's like the Ice King is her grandpa suffering from Alzheimers! It's so sad!
[15:16] <froborr> Adventure Time maintains a constant high level of energy. MLP is a bit calmer and slower.
[15:17] <froborr> Yes, I know. They've done an AMAZING job with Ice King.
[15:17] <Whiteeyes> Yes it is, and as such has as a result more nuance per episode per character, rather than slwly dishing it out over the seasons.
[15:17] <froborr> I can no longer think of the Cheer's theme without tearing up.
[15:17] <Whiteeyes> Yeah, what they did with Ice King was amazing.
[15:17] <froborr> Exactly, Whiteeyes.
[15:17] <froborr> Anyway.
[15:17] <froborr> Copypasta.
[15:17] <froborr> BRB.
[15:19] <froborr> back
[15:19] <Whiteeyes> I origionally thought the Ice King was just anoying. Now, I feel so sorry for him every time I see him. You made me feel empathic sorrow for a character whose main traits are obliviousness and being anoying! I should hate this guy! What did you do to my feels Adventure Time!
[15:19] <froborr> Yep.
[15:20] <froborr> The way I put it in my panel on the show is that it started as part of the Literary Nonsense tradition, meaning it had highly programmatic characters.
[15:21] <Whiteeyes> I've got no idea what half that menas.
[15:21] <froborr> But then it very slowly began putting in genuine emotion.
[15:21] <froborr> lol
[15:21] <Whiteeyes> I know what Nonsense Literature is.
[15:21] <Sylocat> Like many webcomics I can think of
[15:21] <Whiteeyes> Lewis Carol.
[15:21] <froborr> A programmatic character is one that's got one shtick and that's all they do. Like a robot with only one programmed behavior pattern.
[15:22] <froborr> Yep, Carroll is the most famous of the school.
[15:22] <Whiteeyes> Ah, a flat 1D character.
[15:22] <froborr> Yes, but specifically a gimmicky 1D character.
[15:22] <Whiteeyes> Aren't they by definition gimmicky?
[15:23] <Whiteeyes> What sort of 1D character isn't gimmicy?
[15:23] <froborr> No, they can also just be boring.
[15:23] <Whiteeyes> Example?
[15:24] <froborr> The unnamed stable boy who grooms the hero's horse while he's at the inn is a flat character.
[15:24] <Whiteeyes> Ah, I always thought of that as mobile scenery.
[15:24] <froborr> Fair enough.
[15:25] <froborr> So yeah, a programmatic character is a flat character one step above a mobile scenery.
[15:25] <Whiteeyes> Characters in my mind have at least a nominal impact on the story or plot.
[15:25] <froborr> Nonsense literature is inhabited by nothing but programmatic characters.
[15:25] <Whiteeyes> The stableboy could be replaced with a paring meter.
[15:25] <froborr> Except Adventure Time... isn't.
[15:25] <Whiteeyes> Like the White Rabbit, the Red Queen, etc.
[15:25] <froborr> Yep.
[15:26] <froborr> Even Alice herself to a degree.
[15:26] <Whiteeyes> Being late and overreacting are the characters only traits...but how is alice one?
[15:28] <froborr> Basically Alice's only trait is that she's unusually (but not 100%) tolerant of weirdness.
[15:28] <Whiteeyes> Did I just trigger a mega typing dump? This is like asking a philosopher at a party "why are you here" isn't it?
[15:28] <Whiteeyes> Oh thank goodness.
[15:28] <froborr> No, I just had to retype it several times.
[15:28] <froborr> Alice has no arc, is the key thing.
[15:28] <Whiteeyes> She doesn't?
[15:28] <froborr> We know exactly as much about her at the end of each book as we did at the beginning, and she has not changed at all either.
[15:29] <Whiteeyes> Oh wow...yeah I guess so. It's more like a travelogue and she's just a tourist.
[15:29] <froborr> Yep.
[15:29] == Sylocat changed the topic of ##rabbitcube to: Welcome to Rabbit Cube! Now I just have to think of something to do with this room during the MLP hiatus...
[15:30] <froborr> I mean, I guess I didn't really define programmatic well at the beginning.
[15:30] <Whiteeyes> Huh, so the topic changed.
[15:31] <froborr> Really the key thing is that the character gives no indication of having any existence beyond their story role.
[15:31] <froborr> *groans*
[15:31] <Whiteeyes> Ah, so the guard they fight is just "the guard they fihgt", and has no existance beyond that fight scene.
[15:31] <froborr> Yep.
[15:32] <Whiteeyes> Which is why the heroes can slaughter them wholesale, they aren't actually people with any lives beyond the fight scene!
[15:32] <froborr> Exactly.
[15:32] <Whiteeyes> lol
[15:33] <Whiteeyes> Unless it's Gargoyles.
[15:33] <froborr> Whereas with a non-programmatic character, you get some indication either of what they were like before they entered the story, or of something in their life outside their role in the story, or if they change over the course of the story, that creates an implication of that change being carried into some life beyond the story.
[15:33] <froborr> Or Discworld.
[15:33] <Sylocat> Or Order of the Stick
[15:33] <Whiteeyes> Gargoyles did it first.
[15:34] <froborr> Pretty sure Guards! Guards! predates Gargoyles.
[15:34] <Whiteeyes> With a nameless guard from an early episode getting an episode dedicated to him tracking down Goliath to get vengence.
[15:34] <froborr> Heck, even LOTR has the scene with the dead Harad soldier.
[15:34] <froborr> That's pretty awesome.
[15:34] <Whiteeyes> Oh, I meant a nameless guard from an earlier part of the story come back as a major character.
[15:35] <Whiteeyes> Guards Guards is about the guards to start with, it doesn't count.
[15:35] <froborr> Unrelated: I asked on the DC Bronies Facebook page what the punning pony name for DC should be.
[15:35] <Sylocat> The seventh Harry Potter book did this as well
[15:35] <froborr> Current favorite response: "Our nation's clopital"
[15:35] <Whiteeyes> Really? Deathly Hallows?
[15:36] <froborr> I would have pointed to the fifth Harry Potter myself, and Kreacher.
[15:38] <Whiteeyes> I don't know. Kreacher got fleshed out prety well in one book. The Gargoyles episode was early Season 1 and late Season 2.
[15:38] <Sylocat> And of course, Game of Thrones
[15:39] <froborr> What about Game of Thrones?
[15:39] <Whiteeyes> Part of the guys complaint was that "he was a nobody that nobody remembers", and then it flashbacks to where we saw him before and I went "huh, I totally forgot about that guy.....damn it"
[15:40] <froborr> Another good scene like that: the Avatar the Last Airbender finale. The birthday thing.
[15:40] <Whiteeyes> My favorite joke of the series.
[15:40] <Whiteeyes> "I can't believe the captain rmembered my birthday! He really does care!"
[15:40] <froborr> I actually like the two guys making awkward small talk immediately before the reveal even better than the reveal.
[15:41] <Whiteeyes> Those were the series creeators.
[15:41] <froborr> Really? That's awesome.
[15:41] <Whiteeyes> yeah, it makes it even better.
[15:42] <froborr> Really, though, that's what the whole third season was about: putting a face to the fire Nation.
[15:42] <Whiteeyes> Yep, and season 2 was "Not every non-fire person is automatically good."
[15:42] <Whiteeyes> Way to show wars are complex in terms kids can understand!
[15:44] <Whiteeyes> Seriously, its like we're living in a new animation renesance and getto at he same time.
[15:45] <froborr> How do you mean?
[15:45] <froborr> I mean, I'm on the record as believing we live in the a second Golden Age of Animation that started in '87.
[15:45] <froborr> Where's the ghetto?
[15:48] <Whiteeyes> Okay, we get Avatar, MPL:FiM, Symbionic Titan (canceled), Adventure Time, and Samurai Jack as examples of the good. Then we have things like Fanboy and Chumchum, Breadwinners, Sanjay and Craig, and most of the new Spongebob stuff that's just bad.
[15:48] <Whiteeyes> And that's ust stuff currently on the air.
[15:50] <Whiteeyes> We've got this weird mix of ultra good and ltra bad goig on at the same time.
[15:54] <Whiteeyes> Anyway, I've got to get going guys.
[15:54] <froborr> Later!
[15:55] <froborr> Sorry, got called AFK.
[15:55] <froborr> There's *always* bad though... what makes a period good is that there's something besides the bad, not necessarily that there's less bad.
[15:55] <Sylocat> I should probably get back to procrastinating working on blocking notes by working on "Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Ponies"
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[15:56] <froborr> lol, okay
[15:56] <Sylocat> Anyway... this was fun
[15:56] <froborr> I guess I'll watch some Bakemonogatari
[15:56] <froborr> It was!
[15:56] <froborr> Later!
[15:56] <Sylocat> Later
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